Take the T out of LGBTQ

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  • #17982
    Jasmine
    Managing Ambassador

    Hello Members, I post this for another member of TGH who I had this interesting conversation with. With her permission I wish to share with you all. Being a topic this type of discussion, there will be no personal attacks on the writer. Please post your replies and thoughts without any insults to others.

    Please do not stray from the original passage. Hijacking this post will result of your reply being deleted. Everyone one has a right to be heard so please post your reply only once. You may edit your post if need be at anytime.

    -Hello Vanessa! I read your message on a house divided. Interesting points you made. Some I agree with and I don’t. I hope you’re a fair and balanced lady when you read my personal feelings. Please keep in mind that good people can disagree. I have been to a lgbq event and parade, etc. I went during daytime and it was rather mild for public viewing. My friend went at night time and told me it was very degrading, perverted, and utmost sickening in his opinion. He went with me in daytime. Personally I feel that lgbq gets more benefits from TG’s than TG’s receive from being associated with them. Lgbq is strictly sexually oriented. The public has trouble separating TG issues from sexually oriented people. How do we fully explain that we’re different when they ask why are we associated with lgbq? Even though I may be transbian and/or lesbian oriented the fact is until I fully transform into a female I’m not a lesbian and therefore don’t qualify to be represented by lgbq. I feel as a TG we need to have our own national organization separate to represent our own agenda to educate and attempt to gain understanding and acceptance from society. As my own individual self, I feel most strongly pertaining to my own opinions. I respect others who may differ but I ask for their respect of mine in return. I just wanted to express my interest on this subject. I hope you respect my feelings on this matter. Be blessed and thank you for TGH!

    P.S. When speaking on being united with others we need to consider if we reap benefits in a positive light for our own cause or do we draw more negativity from this unity???? Personally I feel we draw more negativity and we do need our own national organization to represent our own agenda and not an opposing agenda that we currently are and will endure in the future!

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    • #91071
      DeeAnn Hopings
      Ambassador

      AMBASSADOR

      Jamie H:

      The numbers don’t really work. At 5%, we’re talking about a gay population of 16,000,000. The trans population is about .6% or about 2,000,000.  That means that we’re only 12% to 13%.

      It makes me wonder if people really understand what the numbers actually are…

    • #90924
      DeeAnn Hopings
      Ambassador

      AMBASSADOR

      I’ve done a bit of research that may help to outline this issue.

      The lists below come from the GLAAD.org web site. A number of these organizations are national in scope. The second list is of LGB organizations that include programs focused on transgender issues. Among other things, it is useful to note that the National Center for Lesbian Rights has done a lot of legal work related to the transgender exclusion in the military issue.

      Politics is always a numbers game. As trans people, we are quite small in numbers. In 2016 the Williams Institute at UCLA released what is, so far, the most comprehensive study regarding the numbers of trans people in the US. What they found was that the national average is about .6% of the population. That equates to roughly 2,000,000 people. The number 1,400,000 also appears sometimes, but I believe that only covers the adult population. There were 4 states, including California, that are at about .8%.

      California has about 40,000,000 people, so the trans population is about 320,000. If you consider the gay population to be 10%, that means that there are about 4,000,000 gay people here in state. Basically there are MANY more potential LGB voices than potential trans voices.

      Financial resources also come into play. Trans people tend to be better educated than the general population, yet our unemployment numbers are about 4x higher. It stands to reason that we tend to have less disposable income with which to support advocacy organizations.

      Regardless of what we may think of trans-specific organizations, it is very hard to compensate for a smaller population and fewer dollars.

      Transgender Organizations

      Transgender Programs at LGBT Organizations

    • #90922
      Jamie Harris
      Participant

      FREE

      Last year at a local public event in Dallas, I asked a question of the director of the Dallas Voice which is a LGBTQ newspaper. He along with other leaders of the Dallas LGB community were in attendance. They misinterpreted my question even though I explained in detail my suggestion.

      He thought that I was suggesting that the T separate from LGBT which is what we are talking about here. Based on their answer I would completely agree with those that say that trans people do more for the LBG community than the other way around. As a disclaimer I will say that I have many friends in the LGB community and hold no animosity towards any of them; we would all just like to lead peaceful lives.

      The LGB leaders concern was not for trans people and their difficulties and what the LGB community could do to help. They were concerned that any reduction in the size of the LGBT community would weaken the political strength of the group.  So in other words a reduction would weaken the political clout of the LGB community, but I can see nothing political wise that they are doing to try and help us. I suggest that the countries LGB leaders will do nothing to encourage trans people to organize and go off on their own.

      We do have leaders in the trans community but many of them are just working state issues. I think that we need to become our own separate group and support and nominate national leaders.

    • #89002
      SophieFR
      Participant

      AMBASSADOR - EDITOR

      Thank you for posting such an interesting piece, it has sparked off my need to write something here!

      Firstly, I need to state that I dislike any use of a ‘Tag’ to describe us and any other group of people in the world. We are human beings and all made of the same stuff, like it or not.

      However it appears that we are stuck with such terms for the time being. I have never taken part in a Pride procession or march, but I have seen images and spoken with friends around the world. It appears the issue is exasperated by how those people choose to present themselves to world, by wearing sexually orientated dress which is more suited to a porn film, and as suggested in the article.

      This is not how most people go about their day and certainly not the likes of most of us. I would question a percentage of those who take part may not either! But they do on that day or at that event. Clearly by doing so they do create a bad impression socially for those of us who are struggling just to live a full and happy life in our chosen way. But, rather like the how media and including Hollywood, have distorted the public perception of anyone outside the hetrosexual bubble and within the wide array of free choice with their sexuality is seen as a pervert, socially repulsive and likely to be a sex worker. One can only wonder if that public behaviour is backed and encouraged by the same people who control the media?

      To get back to your main point, I would agree in principal our way of life is not represented well under the LGBTQ banner, but not sure that yet another public group is the answer! I don’t have a better suggestions right now, but perhaps if more of us are able to reach positions of high social respectability and in high profile jobs, that would serve our interests better. I am sure that this will happen, but all things take time to grow into their natural state and place in the world. We are sadly in a period where many things socially are in decline, added to by the current worldwide situation, but keep your faith as nature always creates a balance in the world.

      My final words are, that colletively we are a force, if we can focus and come togther with a mindset that serves us well, unites us globally, holds us togther by our strong principles and beliefs, we may have a good chance of this changing this sooner. Why sites like this are so very important in our lives, to have such a unique platform to voice our concerns, successes and failure, learnings and experiences and to share among others within our compassionate and loving community
      Sophie xx

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #88997
      CatAnne Vos
      Participant

      CHAT CREW

      Very interesting thoughts coming out here. I can to a certain point agrre with the author’s explanation though. I am living my life 24/7 authentic as trans female and one thing that I have picked up ever since I came out as transgender and that is the general perception of cis people in particular thinks being trans means you are automatically gay, lesbian or some sinister object from outer space. I’ve even been labled a pedophile inderectly but that was snubbed instantly as I went into self preserverance mode to defend myself.
      Getting back to the point, being trans doesn’t automatically lable you as anything else than what you may or may not be. Should we be seperated from GLBTQI? Yes! Because we are who we are but that in itself comes with another issue- Isolation. Being Isolated as a single group although we are true to ourselves will make it much harder for us to get the necessary support structure we need.

      Should we remain part of the GLBTQI group? Yes! It’s a wider spectrum where we are safer and under the umbrella we are not really labled as such. We have wider options of being accepted and assistance where needed. In conclusion- my opinion is we remain under the GLBTQI umbrella where we are in a safer haven and not in direct conflict with anybody that wish to stamp a spesific lable on us. In my own situation I am a transgender woman with zero interest in sex or a sexual relationship with anybody be it male or female. I am who I am, not who someone else think I may be!

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #53318
      Traci Lynn
      Participant

      FREE

      Ladies this is my limited opinion on the issue and not meant to offend anybody.

      The lbgtq as an organization is the best option for support at this time. If anyone can point to any other organization out there that fights for the rights of all of us, I am more than willing to support them, but to fight to separate ourselves in my opinion is self defeating. I understand the points made by all of you, but my pragmatic side tells me that being a part of a larger group does not divide us, it makes us stronger. The present government here would like nothing more than to divide us, making it easier to further divide us and overturn many of the protections and rights that were so very hardly earned. The organization while hardly perfect, is still our best hope to maintain those hard won victories.

      Now while some of us believe they do not truely represent the transgender population as well as the others is a point of debate. Being gay is an identity descision, being lesbian is the same, bi the same, Queer the same, and transgender the same. Its who we are, and does not define us sexually, you can be trangender and attracted to men or women, or both. Gay, bi, lesbian in my opinion is just an expression of their individuality as well.

      But together we are stronger than weaker as individual groups.

      Thats my humble opinion

      Traci

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #33784
      Tami W
      Participant

      FREE

      While transphobia certainly exists in the LGBTQ community, it is really no different than any other community.  Look at the treatment of bi people as a further example.  To splinter off make no sense, reinventing the wheel, when there are already organizations like Lambda Legal, Human Rights Campaign etc. with massive infrastructure in place to push for rights across the board for the LGBT community.  Splintering would be to further isolate a whole community which already experiences far too much isolation in every day life.  If anything more allies would be welcome.  I know in Springfield MO, the local NAACP has teamed up with local LGBT rights groups to add their voice to ours, coming together as minority groups.  To me splintering would be a massive step backward and a huge mistake.

       

    • #32855
      Jamie Davis
      Participant

      FREE

      I’ve never been to a pride event, but do feel that I wouldn’t fit in. There does seem to be two distinct Transgender camps, of which I’m not sure the two can integrate. One, is the confident young persons group (The world is a changing place after all) who do seem to fit into the LGBTQ grouping. Hopefully helped by the fact that they have recognised / diagnosed early and been able to transition without the poison of age. And my god, if Youtube is to be believed, don’t they want the world to know!

      The other transgender group would be for people like me. Who didn’t discover ourselves until much later on in life, where we’ve struggled to come to terms with ourselves and integrate. We just want to get on with our lives. I have a gut and no hair. I spent twenty years forcing myself to be as masculine as possible. I don’t feel pretty, I want to be, but also just want to be normal, blend in. Gain confidence rather than have it thrown at me. I’m not loud and proud. I’m me. I’m also not going to force that Pronoun shite on anybody. Call me how you see me. Atleast it’s honest and hopefully acceptable. The first time I get called She / Her / Miss will feel like a huge win and will not be forced. If this life has taught me anything, its patience. I don’t feel the need to make myself a target.

      Where we come together as a grouping, is that we transition to normalise ourselves. The whole LGBTQ thing just seems to be a political agenda to highlight and make us stand out. I hate attention seekers and so do the general public. This is where we as Transgender, differ. We do our thing and move on.

      Obviously, just my opinion. I don’t wish to offend.

    • #32546
      Kelli Blue
      Participant

      FREE

      Trans people have done far more for the Lgbq than the Lgbq has ever done for trans people.

       

      Trans women started the modern “gay tights” movement at Stonewall and the Compton cafeteria riot.

      Federal court lawsuits by trans people over medical access and discriminatory conduct have had more benefit for the Lgbq than for us.

      Given there are many trans exclusionary lesbians (terfs, etc) and transmisogynistic gays I am all in favor of Transsexual separatism. Until the rest of the Lgbq gets behind us I see no reason to stand with them.

      This is not to say I don’t have plenty of gay male, lesbian female, bisexual, or gender queer friends, but that politically there is no reason to support their issues/causes unless and until they align themselves with us.

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    • #18465

      While I agree with you that sometimes it is good to “coat tail” on to other organizations for support, my personal experience (Which isn’t much) has been that these organizations are primarily focused on the LGBQ and not so much on the T.  This is partly our fault, as most non-cis women/men  only want to blend in, live their lives as comfortably as possible and don’t go looking for a spotlight.

      There is a PRIDE group where I live and they are fairly well involved in community activities.  They are also considerably younger than I am, are mainly LGB and that probably accounts for where most of their focus is directed.  Are there any ladies  who have had different experiences with local groups?  Additionally, the media still presents a biased view of the entire LGBTQ community that really doesn’t do us a lot of good.  Recently Orlando held their PRIDE week and associated events.  The media did mention it, but the snippets of tape they ran just showed individuals partying.  That type of exposure doesn’t do much to change the public’s perceptions….of any of us.

      One of the underlying points that should be considered is that with the particular cross we have to bear, there is scientific and medical facts that point to a medical cause.  As previously stated, there is still are stigmas and erroneous perceptions attached to the term “transgender”, and my personal opinion is that more needs to be done in the area of education.

      Thank you for continuing the discussion, and I hope it reaches more people who will throw climb up on the soap box with me (whether agreeing or opposing) and help stimulate the discussion.

      Hugs…..DeAnn

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    • #18416
      CC Webb
      Managing Ambassador

      MANAGING AMBASSADOR

      The author does raise some valid points and I do think we need our own voice.  But does that mean we loose strength in trying to stand alone.  In lifes circumstances there are times when you really need to be able to lean on a shoulder and the LGBQ communities together are a strong sympathetic group.  Do we have differences, most certainly, but are we getting better support from any other communities?

      There are groups out there that are striving to bring our cause to light on its own and I’m happy to be involved with many through my friends in DC.  I have no idea where my path is leading other than to my goals in transition, but how my advocacy will be manifested is still in the works.

      Hugs, Cloe

    • #18026

      Ladies…..thank you for your input on this subject. In the animal world, sub-sects are the norm. Wolf…canine….breeds of dogs. Maybe humans should do like-wise???? To me transgender is somewhat confusing…..maybe it should be “switchgender” a word that is not as ambiguous????

      Maybe the world would understand this better. As far as I know…this isn’t part of the current sex-ed program (is it?). Gay/Lesbian is pretty well understood, but the rest? Should we present as a separate, educational group??? I am unsure. Transgender Heaven was designed for friendship, assistance with trans G. issues and as an educational site for the general public…n’est pas? Would this not muddy, already muddled waters?? Plain quick and short answers are what the public wants. Great long technical explanations easily bore them and they tune out and reply on stereotypes. To be sure….a question of how to do this needs more study and thought.  Just my 2 cents worth……..

      Lady Veronica

      Dame Veronica Graunwolf

    • #17996

      I couldn’t agree more.  In regards to the LGBTQ label (and that’s what it is) LGBQ represents sexual orientation of which I have no issue with.  T however, represents a gender issue that is caused by a proven medical condition.  I personally do not embrace the term “Transgender” because it is misleading and also because of the negative stereotypes and stigmas associated with it.  A literal translation of the term means “across gender” and I am not going across any gender.  I am embracing the gender that I was born with.  I prefer the term “non-cis woman” because it accurately states who I am.  In the past when I have explained to people the medical reasons that created me, I find that they are more receptive to me as the person I am.  There are some national organizations that represent non-cis individuals such as the Transgender American Veterans Association, and unfortunately I haven’t seen much emphasis being placed on educating the public on the medical aspects of individuals who have been diagnosed as being gender dysphoric.

      My personal opinion is that non-cis individuals should be familiar with some of the medical research that has been done regarding gender dysphoria (it’s available on-line) and whenever they have the opportunity, should make the effort to educate others.

      There is some benefit to being a part of the LGBTQ community as a whole however, I feel that general acceptance of non-cis individuals would be more widespread if we turned our efforts to educating others.

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